Considering a Grizzly G0602 or a WM250 Weiss

[photomankc]

I have come to the conclusion that a lathe is something that I am going to have to have to work on the conversion of mill as well as some other projects I was tinkering with. Some things I could do with my PM-25 mill's spindle but it would all be hacks and not real flexable. I have looked around and I keep coming back to the g0602, but it's lack of variable speed is a bit of a drag to me. I'm not sure how big a PITA it will be to have to mess with gears and belts all the time, but there is just nothing with that capacity in that price range.

The other contender is here:
http://www.weissmachine.us/wm250.html

I really like it too, but there's scant info about it and it seems everything on it is extra cost so it's a good 300-400 more once I add a 4 jaw and steady rest and following rest and thread dial. That's getting pretty darned high for my budget. But the RPM readout and variable speed also call to me, I also have no idea how useful that really is.

Mainly I would like to be able to turn down my own ball screws for the mill conversion, as well as making couplers bushings and some other parts. After that it's whatever might be needed for small projects so I don't think I have demanding needs past the ball screws.

Next I had a question on my bench design. I was a little shocked at the footprint once I laid it out. I wanted a little room to do work on the bench too as I will not be able to add much else to my 'shop' in the basement. After the mill and lathe it's the garage for other stuff and I'd hate to have to march upstairs each time I want to use a little bench space. So my bench ended up about 7 foot long and 3 foot wide. I'm planning on 2x4 construction as laid out below but perhaps 2x6's would be better on the top? Will I have sag issues with that lathe on the bench as designed? I have limited woodworking tools so I was going to make the notched joints by sandwiching 2x4's together to make 4x4's with notches to help hold the corners secure. Pictures of the bench design are below.

Any big gotchas on the Grizzly machine? Are the perk features on the WM250 worth holding out for some more cash on? Any fairly simple ways to get variable speed on the Griz? Will my bench smash under the weight?

Those are my main questions.

Thanks in advance for any pointers or advise guys. Oh yeah, the lathe in the drawing is a scaled-up 7x14. I couldn't find anything for a G0602 so I scaled the 7x14 to roughly the same footprint.

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[Crevice Reamer]

I have come to the conclusion that a lathe is something that I am going to have to have to work on the conversion of mill as well as some other projects I was tinkering with. Some things I could do with my PM-25 mill's spindle but it would all be hacks and not real flexable. I have looked around and I keep coming back to the g0602, but it's lack of variable speed is a bit of a drag to me. I'm not sure how big a PITA it will be to have to mess with gears and belts all the time, but there is just nothing with that capacity in that price range.

The G0602 is THE best bang for buck--including parts availability and Warranty.

You only mess with gears to change threading settings. It takes about 5 seconds to slide the belt from one pulley to another--Very easy. Also, changing speeds with belts carries more torque to the work than a variable speed motor.

The other contender is here:
http://www.weissmachine.us/wm250.html

I really like it too, but there's scant info about it and it seems everything on it is extra cost so it's a good 300-400 more once I add a 4 jaw and steady rest and following rest and thread dial. That's getting pretty darned high for my budget. But the RPM readout and variable speed also call to me, I also have no idea how useful that really is.

They are probably both made in the same factory.

Mainly I would like to be able to turn down my own ball screws for the mill conversion, as well as making couplers bushings and some other parts. After that it's whatever might be needed for small projects so I don't think I have demanding needs past the ball screws.

Next I had a question on my bench design. I was a little shocked at the footprint once I laid it out. I wanted a little room to do work on the bench too as I will not be able to add much else to my 'shop' in the basement. After the mill and lathe it's the garage for other stuff and I'd hate to have to march upstairs each time I want to use a little bench space. So my bench ended up about 7 foot long and 3 foot wide. I'm planning on 2x4 construction as laid out below but perhaps 2x6's would be better on the top? Will I have sag issues with that lathe on the bench as designed? I have limited woodworking tools so I was going to make the notched joints by sandwiching 2x4's together to make 4x4's with notches to help hold the corners secure. Pictures of the bench design are belowAny big gotchas on the Grizzly machine? Are the perk features on the WM250 worth holding out for some more cash on? Any fairly simple ways to get variable speed on the Griz? Will my bench smash under the weight?.

2x4s sixteen on center with 2x lumber for a benchtop will be adequate. First example photo is inadequate if lathe is supported by nails or screws into 2x4 ends.

Remember that the weight of a lathe is mainly supported at each end. Just double up supports there.

Since you are going to CNC it, you might want to consider a custom stand:

http://crevicereamer.com/Page_89.html

If you find a discarded treadmill on the curb for pickup, the motor/speed control can be used for free variable speed conversion.

CR.

[knudsen]

If you want to cut inch threads, an inch lead-screw is a plus. Didn't see a spec on the weiss, so you might inquire...

[photomankc]

Love that stand CR! That's really nice and very useful to me as I have no welding ability. I'm not actually planning to CNC the lathe, just the mill. At least not in the immediate future.

That first pic was just the structure of the bench. On top I am putting a layer of 1" MDF and then 1/2" sanded birch plywood. I figured that would spread the load nicely. I added the center pillar becase I was afraid with that long a span it would want to droop it the middle.

So were you saying that with the top material on it should be up to the task? I've built several benchs but not any that have this kind o weight on them.

I agree that the 10x22 looks like the best deal going. I just don't like having to fiddle with belts if I need to go to a higher speed to finish. I've seen a few mods nowof the 8x14s with treadmill motors that look pretty nice. Wouldnt be hard to whip up an RPM readout from my microcontrollers too.

The weiss looks real nice but like you say there is very little info on it and having it be calibrated in mm would be a deal-breaker completely but I already think it's a bit too expensive by the time you outfit it the same as the grizz.

I've also considered an 8x14 but my experiance with the x2 is not making me excited about getting into another HF machine.

[Crevice Reamer]

MDF will soften if wet or humid. It is brittle and will smash if something heavy dropped on it. I would recommend 2x10 top. 4 pieces wide =37 inches. Cut two 14 footers in half. (Lowes or HD will do this for free) This will give good solid mount for vise etc.

The 8x12 HF lathe is smaller, but a very robust and capable lathe for cheap with 20% off coupon. It is not made by Sieg and is a cut above most HF products.

CR.

[RotarySMP]

If you want variable speed on the 10x22, just buy an invertor.

[kanton]

How much could the G0602's 1.00" spindle bore be increased easily and cheaply and how would this be done?

Thanks.

[photomankc]

2x10's is a neat idea if I can get a layer of thin plywood to sheet it. I prefer a smooth work surface without the dips between the boards. I was planning to sheet the 1/2" plywood over the MDF to protect it from all that, as well as painting it to seal it up. The 2x10's are a good idea though. That would be pretty darn strong.

[Crevice Reamer]

2x10's is a neat idea if I can get a layer of thin plywood to sheet it. I prefer a smooth work surface without the dips between the boards. I was planning to sheet the 1/2" plywood over the MDF to protect it from all that, as well as painting it to seal it up. The 2x10's are a good idea though. That would be pretty darn strong.

Yep, it is! Even stronger if you ran 2x10 the short way across, but the front would not look as good.

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

How much could the G0602's 1.00" spindle bore be increased easily and cheaply and how would this be done?

Thanks.

You will have to decide what is safe:

Thickness of the spindle at bearing journals is 1 3/4 inches
Thickness of narrowest end is 1 1/2 inch, with a wall thickness of about 1/4 inch.
The bore at end of narrow/gears end is 1 1/16.
There is a keyway cut into that to a depth of 1/8 inch.
The M4 taper ends with about a 1/16" lip. That lip is about 6 inches into the spindle and about 6 inches long. You can see it from both ends in the pics.

I think that lip might safely be bored out, and that would leave a through bore of about 1 1/8 inch. That would leave the floor of the keyway untouched, and about 1/8 inch. If you wanted to go whole hog, you could probably go another 1/32 inch to a bore of 1 13/16 inch. That would leave the floor of the keyway at 1/16 inch.

It's supposed to be a hardened spindle, so might have to be ground, not bored. However, the holes in the spindle nose are very easy to ovalize--so the whole thing may just be soft enough to bore with a long bar.

See attached pics.

CR.

[photomankc]

Alright gang,

Thanks for the tips on the bench. Man, that top is going to be stout.... I like it. Purchased the lumber tonight minus the plywood and back pegboard frame. Got the outside frame of the top cut and ready to clamp and screw together.

Revised design attached. I have settled on the 0602 I think. 6 months to pay, good accessories in the package, and a 1" bore all seem like the way to go. I'll need to offload the X2. Computer died yesterday and cost me half my lathe fund to replace it.

[Crevice Reamer]

Now THAT'S a strong benchtop!

You are also going to need some cross bracing to keep bench from swaying left/right or back/forth. You can use wood, but the neatest solution is 6 large "L" shelf brackets that cost about $2 each. These steel brackets get the job done easily and are very unobtrusive.

I don't think you'll regret buying the G0602.

Good cheap deals on parallel port computers are available here:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...+lease+desktop

CR.

[photomankc]

Got busy building tonight and got the bench top structure laid out and the frame assembled. Holy mother.... it's going to be stout as hell. Going to have to get the wife involved in getting it up on legs. She'll love that!

I thought I took my time in lumber selection but apparently the 2x10's had cracks in the ends I didn't look down...

On another note... I am loving Sketchup. It's got quirks that annoy but the price is great and I never got a design put together that quick before. Neat stuff.

[Teyber12]

I have alibre standard and still only use sketchup. its a great program IMO especially for free

[photomankc]

Well the bench is done. Kinda wish I had just done clear polyurathane but the stain is done now. Definately made the surface nicer but the pine looks like A@$ with the bloches. Oh well, beauty was not required.

Going to pull the trigger on ordering next week. The 6 months with no interest makes it doable. If I get the X2 sold that will fund a good portion of the cost. I would like to get a couple hundred in tooling that would allow me to get a little use early on. Since I know squat about lathes I wanted to see if some folks could look at my choices and offer any pointers.

I wanted to get with the lathe:
- Drill Chuck and Arbor.
- Indexable turning tools RH/LH/CTR. I have no grinder for making HSS tools. May not for a bit.
- Inserts.
- Cut-off tools and holder.
- Mag base for mounting dial indicators.
- Boring bar.
- Perhaps a live center but that may have to wait a bit.

Early on I'd probably stick with AL and mild steel as material. High on the wish-list would be:
- QCTP and holders (I think I could make holders pretty easy on the mill though)
- DRO / Scales



I have a few crossover items from the mill:
- Center Drills.
- Drill bits fractional and number.
- Round stock center finder.
- DTI
- Dial Indicators


Anyone think of something else that would help me getting a basic start?

[Crevice Reamer]

You will need shim stock or scrap a feeler gauge--for shimming tools in 4 way tool post. Try to get a 3MT drill chuck arbor that's made for lathe. (shorter)

One of these is a nice mod:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...3430&category=

http://crevicereamer.com/Page_88.html

CR.

[RotarySMP]

You made a really nice job of your table. Have you considered covering it with a sheet of thin steel (Stainless). Swarf is very abrasive when you posh it around with a brush or wipe it. It will quickly chew through that Polyurathane varnish.

How steady is it on those thin screw legs?

[photomankc]

Good point on the surface. I'm not overly worried about it. I generally vac most of the swarf up rather than sweep it up and the table surface is actually rather rough as is. We'll see how it goes.

Table is pretty steady on the bolts but you can tell the difference when it's just sitting on the floor without them. Once I anchor it to the basement wall it will be plenty solid. As is I can't really get it to budge long ways. I can shake it a little front to back but that was true without the bolts too. Whatever they take from steadyness they make up for in my mind not having to shim the feet level. I used 1/2" bolts. I wanted 3/4" but they didn't have any that were fully threaded.

CR: Thanks for the links there! The cam-lock looks simple enough to do.

[photomankc]

Alright guys,

Thanks for the help getting setup. The trigger has been pulled. Ordered the G0602 with:
- Keyless Drill Chuck (That goes on the mill)
- Chuck Arbor
- Live Center
- 3/8" Indexable Tool Bits
- Cut-Off tool and holder
- Lathe Dog
- Couple of feeler guage sets to tear up for shims
- Chain Hoist to get this thing off the floor and up to the level of the bench.

I'm planning to do break-in and early testing on the garage floor where the thing sits after delivery. Once I'm sure it's working then it's time to move it to the basement. How far should I plan to tear it down before the move? It's a fairly long staircase to get down there and I'm still wondering if the dolly with me on my butt down the stairs will be enough or if I should rig something else to get it down?

[Crevice Reamer]

How far should I plan to tear it down before the move? It's a fairly long staircase to get down there and I'm still wondering if the dolly with me on my butt down the stairs will be enough or if I should rig something else to get it down?

With everything removed except the motor & headstock, it still weighs about 260 pounds. At least 2/3 of that is on the headstock end. That much weight could do a lot of damage (not to mention destroy the lathe) if it gets loose. Better have somebody in FRONT of that dolly, or winch it down.

http://crevicereamer.com/Page_87.html

CR.